Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:40 PM
From: "Carlos Burman"
Dear Eiko,
Another working day begins..and its very nice warm weather outside.
Im glad you were able to hear some of the watchtower yesterday...maybe your wife was chotto taikutsu with listening to a different language.
I also hope that you understood my talk.
Anyway,you always ask me very deep but meaningful for questions..of course, i will try to answer them meaningfully and logically in return.
Before i do,i realise since ive been in Japan how obedient Japanese people are...they always obey even when they dont know the reason for direction given. Therefore,i feel that many Japanese people who are christians,they often dont fully understand the meaning of the bible...but they obey anyway.
Its very important to understand why we do things...or why will follow certain laws...for example,children dont know why they shouldnt touch a hot oven door at an early age..but later they learn why because of experience and testing the theory...if the child never experienced or tryed to see why he shouldnt touch the hot oven door,he would grow up without a full understanding of basic rules that protect his body and give him reason in the future to continue following these laws.
Likewise,when we study the Bible,its always a good idea not only to follow the laws and rules...but to understand WHY we follow laws and rules set out within the scriptures...this will help us to more willingly accept any counsel given now and in the future...i personally do....and many non japanese are very logical people....I know that when i was a young child,when my mum said to do something or not to do something,i often listened because i knew she never has let me down in the past..she always gave me wise counsel.
Therefore im glad that you have got a very reasoning mind which is Logical..it helps me to try and explain things easier.
So,now to your question...one of your queries was,if Jesus is the perfect son of God why did he choose to get baptised?, you mentioned in your email that baptism means repentance of past sins...
Well, first of all,The word Baptism as found in the Holy Scriptures and as written in the Greek text means to "Dip" or "Immerse"...this is the basic meaning of the word.
It means that a person must be fully immersed or dipped under water,not just his head or any other part of his body but the WHOLE body.
With regard to John the Baptizer and his purposes while on earth notice this extract from a bible encyclopedia:
John’s Baptism. The first human authorized by God to perform water baptism was John the son of Zechariah and Elizabeth. (Lu 1:5-7, 57) The very fact that he was known as “John the Baptist” or “the baptizer” (Mt 3:1; Mr 1:4) implies that baptism or water immersion came to the attention of the people especially through John, and the Scriptures prove that his ministry and baptism came from God; they were not of John’s origin. His works were foretold by the angel Gabriel as from God (Lu 1:13-17), and Zechariah prophesied by holy spirit that John would be a prophet of the Most High to make Jehovah’s ways ready. (Lu 1:68-79) Jesus confirmed that John’s ministry and baptism were from God. (Lu 7:26-28) The disciple Luke records that “God’s declaration came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. So he came . . . preaching baptism.” (Lu 3:2, 3) The apostle John states of him: “There arose a man that was sent forth as a representative of God: his name was John.”—Joh 1:6.
Further understanding of the meaning of John’s baptism is gained by comparing various translations of Luke 3:3. John came “preaching baptism in symbol of repentance for forgiveness of sins” (NW); “baptism conditioned on repentance” (CB); “baptism whereby men repented, to have their sins forgiven” (Kx); “baptism in token of repentance for the forgiveness of sins” (NE); “Turn away from your sins and be baptized, and God will forgive your sins” (TEV). These renderings make plain that the baptism did not wash away their sins, but the repentance and changing of their ways did, and of this, baptism was a symbol.
The baptism performed by John was therefore not a special cleansing from God through his servant John, but a public demonstration and symbol of the individual’s repentance over his sins against the Law, which was to lead them to Christ. (Ga 3:24) John thereby prepared a people to “see the saving means of God.” (Lu 3:6) His work served to “get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.” (Lu 1:16, 17) Such a work had been prophesied by Isaiah and Malachi.—Isa 40:3-5; Mal 4:5, 6.
If you look at the scripture at Luke 7:27 as shown below again,it tell us regarding what Jesus said about John the Baptizer:
(Luke 7:27) This is he concerning whom it is written, ‘Look! I am sending forth my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way ahead of you.’
yes
John was merely a man of flesh and blood,born that way and having died that way...Jesus came from Heaven and he had previously been a mighty spirit creaturewho had help make the earth alongside is father ,Jehovah for aeons of time.
Johns work while great ,was not at all the same as Jesus and thus Jesus was the greatest man who ever lived on our earth.
John knew that his works were merely a preparing of the way before God’s Son and Messiah and would give way to the greater ministry of that One. The reason for John’s baptizing was that the Messiah might be made manifest to Israel. (Joh 1:31) According to John 3:26-30, the Messiah’s ministry would increase, but John’s ministry was to decrease. Those who were baptized by Jesus’ disciples during Jesus’ earthly ministry and who therefore also became Jesus’ disciples were baptized in symbol of repentance in the manner of John’s baptism.—Joh 3:25, 26; 4:1, 2.
However,changing angles slightly ,You also asked then,why did Jesus become baptized if he was an impeccable being who was perfect....well please read this Bible encyclopedia exerpt:
Jesus’ Baptism in Water. The baptism of Jesus himself as performed by John must of necessity have had a meaning and purpose quite different from John’s baptism, as Jesus “committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth.” (1Pe 2:22) So he could not submit to an act symbolizing repentance. Undoubtedly it was for this reason that John objected to baptizing Jesus. But Jesus said: “Let it be, this time, for in that way it is suitable for us to carry out all that is righteous.”—Mt 3:13-15.
Luke states that Jesus was praying at the time of his baptism. (Lu 3:21) Further, the writer of the letter to the Hebrews says that when Jesus Christ came “into the world” (that is, not when he was born and could not read and say these words, but when he presented himself for baptism and began his ministry) he was saying, in accord with Psalm 40:6-8 (LXX): “Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me. . . . Look! I am come (in the roll of the book it is written about me) to do your will, O God.” (Heb 10:5-9) Jesus was by birth a member of the Jewish nation, which nation was in a national covenant with God, namely, the Law covenant. (Ex 19:5-8; Ga 4:4) Jesus, by reason of this fact, was therefore already in a covenant relationship with Jehovah God when he thus presented himself to John for baptism. Jesus was there doing something more than what was required of him under the Law. He was presenting himself to his Father Jehovah to do his Father’s “will” with reference to the offering of his own “prepared” body and with regard to doing away with animal sacrifices that were offered according to the Law. The apostle Paul comments: “By the said ‘will’ we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.” (Heb 10:10) The Father’s will for Jesus also involved activity in connection with the Kingdom, and for this service too Jesus presented himself. (Lu 4:43; 17:20, 21) Jehovah accepted and acknowledged this presentation of his Son, anointing him with holy spirit and saying: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”—Mr 1:9-11; Lu 3:21-23; Mt 3:13-17.
Yes,Jesus himself knew he was a perfect being,yet, because he wanted to do Gods will so much,he symbolized it by Dedication and baptism.
Jesus didnt have to do this..there was no law for him to do this and Jehovah didnt think bad of him if he didnt.
but ,as a parent Hiroshi,how do you feel when your child or wife buys you or makes you something more than you even asked?
How do you feel when your wife asks you what you would like for dinner..then she makes you that food you asked and the makes even more things that she knows you enjoy?
Of course you realise how much she loves you and wants to respect you and be in subjection to you.
Jesus was symbolising his this dedication because he want to express his love for Jehovah in everyway possible.
Jehovahs witnesses do similar today...although its true,baptism generally represents our repentance of our sins,it also represents our unreserved,unconditional dedication or obedience to God,Jehovah....Jesus,although perfect at the point of getting baptized,could still turn bad and show disobedience to his father if he willed,yet, he chose to do Gods will.
Today Jehovahs witnesses,try their very best to live up to thier dedication.......although we make many mistakes,for the reason that Jesus died for all humans,we pick ourselves up and continue.
In your last email,you also asked about "baptism with fire"...again the Bible encyclopedia says this about the terminology:
Baptism With Fire. When many Pharisees and Sadducees came out to John the Baptizer, he called them “offspring of vipers.” He spoke of the coming One and said: “That one will baptize you people with holy spirit and with fire.” (Mt 3:7, 11; Lu 3:16) The baptism with fire is not the same as baptism with holy spirit. The fiery baptism could not be, as some say, the tongues of fire at Pentecost, for the disciples there were not immersed in fire. (Ac 2:3) John told his listeners that there would be a division, there would be a gathering of the wheat, after which the chaff would be burned up with fire that could not be put out. (Mt 3:12) He pointed out that the fire would not be a blessing or a reward but would be because ‘the tree did not produce fine fruit.’—Mt 3:10; Lu 3:9.
Using fire as a symbol of destruction, Jesus foretold the execution of the wicked to take place during his presence, saying: “On the day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed.” (Lu 17:29, 30; Mt 13:49, 50) Other instances of fire representing, not a saving force, but a destructive one, are found at 2 Thessalonians 1:8; Jude 7; and 2 Peter 3:7, 10.
What results from baptism with fire?
Luke 3:16, 17: “He [Jesus Christ] will baptize you people with . . . fire. His winnowing shovel is in his hand to clean up his threshing floor completely . . . The chaff he will burn up with fire that cannot be put out.” (Its destruction would be forever.)
Matt. 13:49, 50: “That is how it will be in the conclusion of the system of things: the angels will go out and separate the wicked from among the righteous and will cast them into the fiery furnace.”
Luke 17:29, 30: “On the day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed.”
Not the same as baptism with holy spirit, which was for disciples
Acts 1:5: “John, indeed, baptized with water, but you [Jesus’ faithful apostles] will be baptized in holy spirit not many days after this.”
Acts 2:2-4: “Suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting. And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed about, and one sat upon [but did not envelop or immerse] each one of them, and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance.”
Thus as you correctly guessed,being baptised in water means we want to repent and do Gods will BUT baptism with fire means destruction.
One thing to keep in mind is that,when a person gets baptised in water,it means that he REPENTS of his sins...it doesnt TAKE AWAY his sins..all humans are imperfect whether we are baptised or not....this means that we have to DIE faithfully and be loyal to God all our lives in order to have everlasting life...baptism on its own doesnt mean everlasting life just as being born sinful doesnt mean everlasting death.
Each person must put effort into doing Gods will continuously,just as Jesus did and does.
You also mentioned in your email that Jesus thought that John was a starter of a new religious movement and so Jesus decided to follow him..
This takes us back to that scripture we saw earlier: Jesus said:
(Luke 7:27) This is he concerning whom it is written, ‘Look! I am sending forth my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way ahead of you.’
Yes,this scripture shows us that God raised up John the baptiser as a forerunner of Jesus christ,he prepared the way for Jesus who would be greater than him.
At around this time,the jewish nation was expecting Jesus as King to come and save them all...yet when Jesus came,he was not as people expected him to be like or look like.
Thus John the baptiser,in fullfillment of Bible scriptures uttered centuries earlier came and prepared the way ahead of Jesus...even preached Jesus imminent coming and he baptised those who willing accepted what the Bibles scriptures prophesied.
Those who did accept bible truth were humble people who diligently studied the bible and knew them well and of course obeyed them.
Jesus as Gods son knew he was a very important person..he also knew he was very powerful and he had Gods backing.
John was Born from woman..he was not a spirit being as was jesus previously.
John died and he was not resurrected and he didnt go to heaven.
Jesus did go to heaven and he now stands at the right hand of God as king of Gods kingdom.
thus while John was a faithful man who obey and carrying out his assignment,he was not anywhere near as powerful in rank or power or influence as jesus Christ..otherwise today we would call ourselves "Johnites" as followers of John...but of course we dont.
Christians follower Jesus Christ.
anyway,this is again quite alot of information yet i have to say,its only the fringes of the knowledge that is to be found on this subject..there are many other sources we could look at that help to identify the true roles of both Jesus and John...as always,if you dont understand,please let me know.
By the way, i want to let you know that with regards to "Brother Hiroshi" which i mistakenly wrote to you, you see a brother of Christ is one that gets baptised in the name of Jesus christ...its one who dedicates his whole life to the works that Jesus did when he was on earth.....its someone who preaches and teaches to other the things christ taught..his whole focus in life is being a christian.
Please accept my apologies..i dont mean to sound judgmental,but according to scriptures, we only call a "brother" someone who is now baptized and living in harmony with the Bible and with holy spirit and inline with Gods earthly spirit anointed organisation.
I dont view you as any worse just because i dont call you "brother" though...it just means that now scripturally you are a qualified member of the Christian congregation.
Even once you come into the christian congregation,thier are different roles that we can reach out for as it were.
Even i dont title myself as "brother".
Im a ministerial servant but accoding to the scriptures i have to scripturally qualify to become an "olderman" or an elder as we call them.
anyway,i hope to hear from you soon...
when you next come to the meeting,you WONT need your slippers,bring your own shoes.
hope to speak to you soon
Carlos
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Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 09:53:47 -0700
From:
Subject: Baptism
To:
Good evening Carlos..
Thank you for letting me know the address.
We needed to shorten our stay in the hall since she still works in Kokura and needed to get back.
In a Watch tower study I got curious about the kinds of baptism and the practice of baptism itself.
In your comment you said Jesus didn't need to baptise but he did it.
Jesus's baptism is controversial. Some insist he ought not to do it if he is greater than Baptiser John and if he was born to be impeccable. Baptism generally means repentance from the past sin.
How do you explain Jesus's baptism?
In the kinds of baptism, 'baptism by fire' was not mentioned. How do you explain this 'baptism by fire' ?
In Matthew 3:11 reads Christ baptises you with Holy Spirit and with fire
My understanding is Baptiser John baptise us with water for repentance and we will become a Christian.
Those who baptised with Holy Spirit by Christ will have everlasting life.
But those who baptised with fire by Christ will be simply terminated.
Jesus accepted baptism because he just thought Baptiser John was a forerunner of kind of new religious movement and Jesus had decided to follow him.
John the Baptiser was beheaded unreasonably and John's unexpected death made Jesus realise Jesus himself might have been the stronger one who were foretold by John.
Eiko
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